Is there anything more despicable?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/13/foi-reveals-nasty-hateful-emails-sent-to-phil-jones-right-after-climategate/
The accolytes state that these emails are written by the "Team".
However it is a bit of a fail not to have published them 2 years ago!
Why wait for a FOI request??
edited for the best (worst?) ones and defamatory comments
I’d have an expert look at them…
Just because my opinion of AGW doesn’t conform to the views of our political masters, it doesn’t mean I am a holocaust denier. As a Jew whose father fought in WWII, I find this continued use of the term to label AGW skeptics doubly offensive.
I was especially offended when Barack Obama used this “denier” term to label AGW skeptics in one of his speeches–isn’t it ironic that it’s ok for the first black POTUS to promote hate speech, but a few angry e-mails to scientists falsifying their research gets blown out of proportion. Even the Australian prime minister Ju-liar Gillard used this “denier” term to slander AGW skeptics in Australia.
This is the true meaning of post-normal science: it’s ok to lie, cheat, and commit fraud because those in power says it’s ok to do so. Just like it’s ok for Peter Gleick to commit wire fraud and not get punished. Just like it’s ok for Phil Jones and Michael Mann to “hide the decline” and not get punished. Just like it’s ok for Al Gore and the IPCC to demonize C02, a harmless gas plants need to make food, and not get punished. But if your views go against the political orthodoxy, you will lose your job in a heartbeat. This is the new post-normal science world we live in now.
However, history is on the side of truth. Nazi’s came and Nazi’s lost. Dictators all eventually fall. Eventually, all these AGW scammers are going to get caught in their own web of lies and charged for serious crimes against humanity. It will be a long struggle but make no mistake, once the global public awaken to the massive lies and fraud going on in the name of AGW alarmism and carbon taxes, a few angry emails will pale in comparison to what these AGW charlatans are going to receive.
On the other hand, I have little use for people who think they’re communicating when every phrase has a vulgar word. Give ‘em a copy of Strunk & White! Heck, start a genre of hate limericks to get a little humor to the threats!
I can almost feel sorry for Phil and his team. It must have been nice back when they had a nice, quiet academic environment where they wrote papers, get them published after pal review, and not bother to file the data someplace because no one bothered to reproduce the work. Then Daly, then M&M, then a flood of interested amateurs, then people screaming that CO2 is a trace gas and therefore can’t have an effect, then Climategate, and then these.
On the other hand, they managed to set themselves up for the fall, so forgive me if I can’t feel too sorry for them. Who knows, maybe God is punishing Jones for what he said about Daly. Well, probably not, your faith may vary.
Of course they are vile, but once again I am amazed at the preciousness of people who want to drive major changes in the way we live without any consequences. I have said before, and will keep saying, that Ministers get this stuff all the time, precisely because people think that they have the power to affect the way we live.
The quoted examples are typical of what a powerful politician gets all the time. No, they are not ‘death threats’, and yes, there are some angry and disturbed people out there.
It should be noted that these sorts of unpleasant communications are not limited to any particular kind of scientist, professional or politician. It is the perception that these people have the power to influence events that generates the hate mail. Judges get this stuff as well, as do doctors and lawyers, and public servants.
Judges, lawyers, public servants, doctors and politicians all manage to keep doing their jobs despite the rantings of temporarily or permanently deranged members of the public. What is so special about snowflake climate scientists, whose only crime is to promote policies that make people poorer (at best) based on questionable premises, data, and conclusions?
They, and their defenders, need to get out more. I’m afraid I don’t share the revulsion of previous commenters, having read this sort of garbage very day addressed to Ministers. Boo-bloody-hoo. An old saying about heat and kitchens comes to mind.
——————————————–
I suspect that Anthony has been very low-key in his description of the stuff that he gets all the time, especially since the lowlife Appell released Anthony’s personal email details to the blogosphere.
I deplore abusive or threatening communications from whoever to whoever. But, it is unrealistic to be an advocate of major political and economic change and expect that no-one will notice your name on the justification document. And, no, they weren’t just scientists doing their job, as the Climategate emails demonstrated.
From my perspective, having been in television and radio newsrooms for 25 years, this is pretty run of the mill stuff.
****
Anthony, you’re a hardened warrior from the front-lines, yet sympathetic to the sheltered academics. Not sure I’m that magnanimous.
Color me cynical. He’d been in the limelight a long time. Remember his comment to the effect that he’d spent his career collecting the data and why should he release it when all his correspondent wanted to do was find something wrong with it? I’m sure he’s gotten some nasty flak for that over the years.
I have no solution, only an insight.
PS: The “catch” that they are written in a pseudo neanderthal style but the creators “slipped” and used vocabulary that is not typical of “neanderthal conservative/skeptics” is marvelous.
The one thing we can count on is that EVIL ALWAYS OVERPLAYS ITS HAND in the poker game of life.
Anonymity eliminates the necessity for someone to take responsibility — or consequences — for his words. I’ve never said anything in print that I wouldn’t say to someone’s face.
That said, I agree with Steve T’s assessment. The e-mails are suspiciously akin.
Jay Davis
(sarc) Almost all climate change crisis skeptics agree with the above statement, creating an overwhelming consensus. Therefore, the issue is settled and should not be brought up by David Appell, or any other warmist, ever again! (sarc off)
Seriously…I do have one question about this that I believe would be of interest. How long did it take for the UEA to comply with this FIO, compared to requests for climate related data and emails?
But already some are taking them as genuine, others are (with good reason given the Climategate etc), taking the position tha these are ‘false-flag’ attacks by ‘The team’
So around and around we go, still trying to get the truth to the public in a believable way – truly it was said that the first casualty of war is Truth .. and this is quite definitely a war
much less credible than agenda 21
however, they indicate that at least a few people got mad about being screwed.
apart from those few, the perpetrators of the fraud and the robbers of your rights have no resistance that matters.
but talk is just talk.
40% of american income down the tubes in the last 3 years isnt’ enough to get a true believer to doubt the system he supports. doesn’t even get him mad. that indicates that he agrees that he’s suitable as fodder and has no claim to rights.
I watched a tsunami vid yesterday. there were some who could not be so undignified as to run like hell. they walked as if they were balancing books on their heads – gracefully. they died.
i’d hate to have to depend on anybody like that in the trenches, but that’s all there is.
that’s why a ussr is all but assured.
the meek shall inherit the grave.
that’s justice. darwin says so.
1) the original FOI request made to UEA/CRU by the person who made the FOI request
2) the original UEA/CRU acknowledgement of receiving the FOI request that they are required to send to the FOI requester.
3) any response by the requestor to UEA/CRU receipt acknowledgement notice
4) the actual UEA/CRU transmittal letter/email sent to the requestor which contained the release of the requested emails/info.
Also, I would like to see the Information Commissioner in the UK (I sorry if I got the title wrong) review the credibility that these are real emails.
John
Really? You suggesting his actions [redacted!] had nothing to do with driving him to depression? Are you saying that those who defraud the public should not have to endure any pushback by those about to lose their money and liberty?
[redacted!] .
So which is it, “slowly” or “firing squad?”
Holy Cow!
e.g. Anyone who does online gaming will be exposed to similar constant abuse.
Personally I can’t take it seriously, and so can find it somewhat funny. Although I wouldn’t post anything like that myself for fear of job security. Kids don’t have that worry, I kinda envy them for their freedom in this respect.
And all I did was take the last chicken leg.
There’s one set which is clearly the work of a loon, or several similar loons. Crack-head, meth-head, or merely unfortunately mentally ill, but, whilst distasteful, not subject to rational analysis beyond saying that if you’re in the public eye, you’re likely to attract rants from the odd nutter. Essentially, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the debate. Of course they’re deplorable, and possibly even the highest risk as far as someone actually putting them into action, but they’re not politically motivated in any way that makes sense to sane people. Some of the long rambling rants contain actual threats, but they’re buried in lunatic babble.
There’s another set which expresses the wish that the recipient would die, or kill themself, but which aren’t actually threatening. There’s one which ends by wishing Phil would crawl away and rot in a ditch, and then adds ‘(Please don’t take the black humour to heart.)’, which whilst not a threat as such is a bit like saying ‘no offence’ instead of avoiding giving offence…
The third set is the one consisting of the emails which are relatively short, relatively coherent, and have a clear, unambiguous threat. It’s a small minority, but they’re certainly there. As Anthony Watts points out, such things are almost always merely venting, but that doesn’t mean a recipient of them isn’t entitled to call them death threats. Personally, I don’t find receiving death threats to be particularly serious when they’re of this unspecific nature and in this quantity, but there are some there.
Seriously, whoever these people are, they need help beyond anger management courses.
And why is it assumed they are right-wingers? Several of the mails refer (vaguely, in between the expletives and the spleen) to the economic damage done by the AGW crowd, including “dead children”. This is a common complaint by both right- and left-wing critics of The Cause.
Ironically, none of this would have happened if the CRU crew had paid attention to FOI requests in the first place.
Still, utterly sick.
June 13, 2012 at 7:24 am
David Ball says:
June 13, 2012 at 7:37 am
How many “victim” cards are in that deck?
Kaboom says:
June 13, 2012 at 7:47 am
One can only hope for Gleick’s sake that he isn’t getting fingered for writing these, too.
mrmethane says:
June 13, 2012 at 7:52 am
John Whitman says:
June 13, 2012 at 9:23 am
=========================
As to the comments noted above, count me in this camp. What I would say has been said.
I agree that this type garbage is out of order. I would also say that if these emails are in fact real and were fabricated for political purpose by someone for the purpose of garnering sympathy for Jones, then heads should roll (this is a figure of speech and not a threat).
If a few abusive e-mails from loonies is the worst that these wussy “scientists” have ever had to worry about then pardon me for not feeling at all sympathetic.
But, these are definitely not the work of the typical skeptic. Recall, that after Climategate emails, skeptics weren’t angry, heck many were darn near euphoric!
In spite of the content of some of those emails, I had to “LOL” at some of them….. one signed “Chaos Deathwalker”. Aparently, that’s a reference to a Babylon 5 episode?
But, here’s what really jumped out at me….. bottom of page 7, “dodgy emails that were hacked…“. Uhmm….. oops! That’s not how us skeptics term the “release” of the emails.
BTW, Anthony et al, the comment referenced earlier at the BBC has been removed.
If anyone EVER submits an FOI request for emails, you really need ensure that you request emails with all headers intact.
That’s not just the From, Subject, Date headers, but all the rest not normally displayed in most email clients, which give routing information etc. These are somewhat harder to forge, and are very useful in determining if multiple emails originate from the same individual(s).
The emails listed here are useless. Just a bunch of nasty words and phrases which have some indications of coming from a very restricted set of originators.
I could not agree more.
Well do we need to remember that.
Some people really don’t think their threats through. We used to see that sort of thing occasionally aimed at government offices and laugh at it. We only got interested when someone said something like “I am going to shoot you”, (or “kill you”, or “blow you up” etc.) that got things forwarded to the federal protection service in a heartbeat. The most common ones were very improbable sexual suggestions – some of which were quite funny when taken literally.
they are not the real thing.
they fall into the catagory that “if you see the real thing then you know it immediatly for what it is”.
and these arn’t it.
C
No, he is the scum that several called him. What goes around comes around.
So that leaves me only with a nagging question of doubt about the real source of the threatening emails. I think I am entitled to that doubt given lack of morality by CAGW activists in the past few months wrt Gleick’s perpetration of an email scam and fraud.
My questions about the real source of the emails can only be answered by a formal investigation of the full email metadata and authors identity. What is the chance of getting that? I will continue my skepticism until that info is made public.
John
This isn’t a debate. It is billions of dollars, the economy, your job that supports your way of life and your personal freedom. The eco-terrorists are already murdering people in Africa to force this garbage on them. People get angry when what they need to live is threatened, and these “scientists” want to destroy it. I don’t find the comments surprising at all, and I expect at some point some people will carry out their threats.
Please give up on this “gentle minded academic” nonsense. These people are complete misanthropes and they don’t give a hoot who they harm. They don’t feel your pain. I have a hard time understanding how you can fail to understand that after years of writing this blog and being attacked by them, Anthony. You need to wake up to reality, you really are too kind.
gnomish says:
June 13, 2012 at 9:17 am
…
the meek shall inherit the grave.
that’s justice. darwin says so.
Darwin says no such thing. Darwin says, in a reductio ad absurdum, that “survivors survive” – in short, whatever works. What this means is that under many conditions, cooperation among a group leads to enhanced survival within the group; it isn’t anywhere near as simple as “nature bloody in tooth and claw.”
Yeah, I wasen’t going to send these out( bad language!), but, since you requested them…
Sheesh…pathetic!
June 13, 2012 at 9:23 am
“… I will remain skeptical until I see:
1) the original FOI request made to UEA/CRU by the person who made the FOI request
2) the original UEA/CRU acknowledgement of receiving the FOI request that they are required to send to the FOI requester.
3) any response by the requestor to UEA/CRU receipt acknowledgement notice
4) the actual UEA/CRU transmittal letter/email sent to the requestor which contained the release of the requested emails/info. ”
Now this is a skeptic talking and with good grammar and spelling. Gleick underestimated the grit of real skeptics in his juvenile attempt to deceive. Mr. Whitman is from Missouri, or he deserves to be made an honorary citizen.
These e-mails are a contradiction, they are full of foul language and threats, but they are obviously the product of someone who is intelligent. Intelligence seldom goes hand in hand with thuggery, unless the person is a psychopath. I do not think that there are many psychopaths who have an interest in the planet or their tax returns!!!!
I think these e-mails originated from the recepients!
Many frustrated, fearful, angry people love to vent in inappropriate ways. Anonymity gives them this ability to indulge, while seething. Nothing more. GK
I join Anthony in condemning such emails. They serve no purpose at all no matter how angry you are at these brazen manipulators.
That said, people really shouldn’t wish others harm even if they are perpetrators of the biggest fraud (monetarily at least) in the history of history. It is much more polite, when passing a train wreck of this magnitude, to point and laugh.
June 13, 2012 at 12:55 pm
I found the emails distressing to read, but not nearly as distressing as vile, hateful opinions appearing here in the comments thread. I think the WUWT readership has really lost contact with reality. The very suggestion that these emails would be concocted to garner sympathy is beneath contempt. I would very much like to see Anthony weigh in and condemn these speculations.
- – - – - -
Nigel Harris,
An experienced hardened investigative journalist, a good defense attorney or tough nosed senior police detective would not take anything for granted if email threats were formally reported to them. They would question the source of the emails themselves as a routine matter and question the recipient just as closely. You cannot assume anything about the motives any of the people involved. You should read some criminal court transcripts.
In addition, an edited comment from another blog,
John
June 13, 2012 at 12:55 pm
=============
Could you please identify and be more specific with regards to “… distressing as vile, hateful opinions appearing here in the comments thread”?
Could you recommend sites that you visit that discuss the so-called death threats where we could read comments that would be more suitable to your liking?
“I would very much like to see Anthony weigh in and condemn these speculations.” Did I condemn your viewpoint which I don’t agree with? Why would you want the majority here to be censured or condemned?
Are you a bleeding heart liberal who espouses the politically correct view to the point that you are choking on it?
Am I simply feeding a troll?